How do you get the two of them to sleep??
We used to have a good routine, I would do Noah's bath and bed, OH would do Milo's, and it worked well. but he's on nights this week, so I do Noah's bath and bedtime feed while Milo watches Pingu (we're all in the same room btw, not deserting the poor kid!) then put Noh into bed, take Milo up, brush teeth, story, cuddle and song, sleep. <-- is the plan.

The reality is, give noah bedtime feed, Noah can't sleep as Milo is too noisy.
Put noah in bed, get milo in bed, milo refuses to sleep, starts screaming, wakes noah up. Go to settle noah, milo screaming so much that noah is freaked out and can't sleep. Take noah into milo's room to settle them both. Milo gets out of bed, refuses to get back in, I can't put him back as holding noah. Put noah down, noah starts screaming. And on and on.

We started bedtime at 7:30, they were both finally asleep at 9:30 I am shattered, haven't slept properly since friday night as noah has a blocked nose so keeps waking up in the night for feeds and cuddles.

I know it's probably tougher at the moment as they're both under the weather, but I can't keep on like this
Any advice? Spare prozac??

Ermm I don't have a plan at all!
This is generally how it goes though... We go upstairs at 7, we don't do bath everyday but when we go Joshua will go in with Imogen. Then pjs on and brush teeth. I will normally change Joshua whilst Matt sorts Immi out. We all sit in her room and have storytime then she goes to sleep. We bring Joshua down i'll feed him then settle him down here. We don't take him up till we go.

I guess its different as they don't share a room and once Imogen is asleep she's dead to the world, not much wakes her. Once we have Joshua settled in more of a routine. I think I will put Imogen to bed then give Joshua his last feed and put him to bed after.

We moved Lily and Aimee into the same room (so baby can have the nursery) so we had a similar problem. Aimee was noisy and kept climbing into Lily's cot and undressing her or generally bullying her.

I decided to cut out Aimee's day time nap and then put her to bed at 6.30pm. She is more than ready for it at that time as she hasnt slept all day.

Then we give Lily a bottle and let her sit with us for 15/20 minutes. At 6.50pm ish we take Lily to bed and by this time Aimee is fast asleep so Lily just dozes off on her own. Hey presto!

x

Just to add... although I cut out her nap which she used to have approximately 2 hours of in the afternoon, I make sure she has 'quiet time' instead so she isnt too miserable. I tend to get a pillow and blanket and we watch tv together and have a cuddle, but no sleeping x

I was thinking of doing it that way round, but Milo is such a bad sleeper that it can take him over an hour to get settled, and Noah tends to fall asleep around 7:30/8ish so he would be late to bed. May try that way round again and see if that works. Thanks x

Laura - i'm so jealous!
Why the heck is milo so bad at going to sleep? he doesn't nap, we do quiet time like you, he has a routine.. he just doesn't settle at night no idea what to do any more

Maybe its his age? Aimee used to be just the same at the same age. She would run around her room playing with toys and being a general little monkey for an hour or so. Stopping the nap wasnt ideal as it was the only decent time I got to relax in the day, but in the long run it has worked as I now get every evening without fail.

Although, if he isnt napping then our technique wont work. I would really try to get him down first though as having Noah there will just make him want to play even more.

Is there anywhere else you can settle Noah to sleep and then move him when Milo is asleep? We did this with Lily before we cut out Aimee's nap.

x

Just another thought... have you tried putting him down earlier? Its a long day for him to go without a nap and then going to sleep that late. Perhaps he is getting over tired and then gets past his natural bedtime?

I have always found that if we try to put the kids down slightly later than normal that they kick off and play around for ages.

I read it somewhere that its better for them to go earlier than later so tried it and it worked well x

Noah sleeps in our room, so that parts ok, but it's just what to do with noah while i'm settling milo or vice versa.. If they're both screaming i have no clue what to do! Our house is tiny, so they can hear each other even with the doors closed I am completely stumped on this one!

Milo won't sleep unless you're in the room with him, been trying to fix this for ages but now it's me putting him bed not oh, he's completely lost it again

Aaah laura, just saw your last post - i will gladly try that!! I need my evenings back!

Also (another one, lol), how about getting him a Gro Clock? They are brilliant!

We have a routine of setting it when we put Aimee to bed so she can see its bed time and that the moon has come up and its time to sleep. Then she isnt allowed to get up until its showing a sunny picture.

They are not cheap (£30 or so, but you can normally find them on offer somewhere), but they are pretty good for sleep training x

If im alone I run a V shallow bath and let them in together. Awen lies on her back so its literally shallow enough to come up to her ears and C sits next to her. I let them splash and play then swaddle awen in a towel and put C in a towel, and put A her in the cot with the mobile going while I dry and dress C then dry and dress A while C sits playing with her toys.

Then its downstairs for button moon and milk. I put A up one episode of Button Moon earlier than C and she falls asleep instantly. Caelyn then comes up for wee and bed and we have taught her quiet as a mouse so she goes to her room whispering and saying shush. She gets her bedtime music put on and some nights will go right off ad others shout for wees. Shes allowed up for 1 toilet run after bed then I ignore her and she gets bored and goes to sleep

Seriously?? No one else's toddler screams the house down as soon as you've done their routine, said night night and walked out of the door?? What am i doing wrong I feel like such a terrible mum, every night this week has been terrible, we're all exhausted.. I must just be shit at this for him not to be able to sleep properly

(please forgive me, i'm having a hormone induced - sleep deprived - exhausted moment, i love you all and will try all the advice you've given me, just right now i feel like the shittest mum )

How do you deal with him when he is kicking off and screaming?

Im not one to encourage controlled crying, but at his age I would ignore him. Worst case, then I would go up and without staying a word put him back into bed and walk away. I would keep doing that until he finally got the message that he wasnt getting any proper attention. He will soon get bored.

You are not alone hun, I have been where you are, and it took a lot of stress on both our parts for a few days while dealing with ignoring Aimee's shouting and tantrums, but as soon as we joined forces and stuck to our gameplan she stopped pretty much straight away xx

i am really lucky...as soon as lewis was born he went into a natural routine of going to bed at the same time as lily-ann

when he went into the same room as her at about 6months we started the routine of...(if sam was at home we'd do it all at the same time but take a child each)

both go upstairs to bed at the same time, either i carried both up, or sam would carry one.
tuck in was lily-ann first, then across to lewis giving each kisses
give lewis his bottle and settle down in the room to do lily-ann's bottle

now that they're older it's the same but lewis walks upstairs, i tuck lily-ann in, lewis gives her a kiss, then mummy a kiss(daddy too if he's home) and i pop him into his cot with a bottle of milk and then settle next to lily-ann to do hers
when i'm done with lily-ann, i get up to leave, lewis will either be asleep or laying quietly and says 'na nite mummy' as i leave and that's the last i hear from him, even if lily-ann is having a screaming night

I try do the same Laura, the only problem I have is being too soft when it gets late as our neighbours have a toddler whose room is on the other side of his wall (we live in a terraced house) and when kicks off he kicks that wall, screams - proper slasher movie level screams so i feel i have to stay in to calm him down else he's going to wake her up. Which is daft of me but i get so stressed worrying about it.

Right, I'm going to get oh to move milo's bed to the other wall as the room on that side should be empty, put him to bed much earlier, do the routine and let him have a shout if he wants to, and get on with it!

I'm just shattered at the moment as its my oh's first week of nightshifts, he leaves at 6:30pm, then isn't home until 10am next day, he stays up for an hour then goes straight to bed until 5:30pm, so I'm struggling to fit in all the housework and my own work with this chaos every evening

Thanks for the advice, will definitely try a gro clock and earlier bedtimes

Kenty - aww lucky! what a little star! I'll keep on plugging away at it, just sometimes feel like I've done something wrong to him for him to be this stubborn, screaming kicking etc.. Maybe he just twigged that i'm a big old softy!

You are not a terrible mum!!! Until fairly recently Thomas screamed the house down when he was put to bed too! Unfortunately he was still napping in the day so we cut that and it helped which isn't much help to you. I would deffinately bring Milos bedtime forward slightly though - if he is going all day without a nap it's definately possible he's over tired.

Just a thought but does Milo settle better for your OH than he does for you? I found a few months back Thomas was getting unbelievably difficult going to bedat night, as soon as I shut the door he would be screaming and kicking it and banging and shouting at me and it was always me - if he stayed at my mums or I was out and OH put him to bed he wasn't half as bad. Made me feel like shite tbh and he was waking constantly in the night and wouldn't have anyone but me and he would just throw major tantrums at 2-3-4am. I came to the conclusion that it was a delayed jealousy thing and he had discovered that bed time and the middle of the night he had me all to himself because Hannah was asleep and because it was ALWAYS me that put him to bed and got up to him in the night he had become VERY clingy and possesive of me. The only way we found to fix it is if we alternate nights on who takes him to bed - he still has a moan that he wants me not daddy but we tell him I have to go to work and he says ok reluctantly (I actually had to leave the house and wave and get in the car one night to convince him ). I know this doesnt help you whilst hubby is on nights but when he is off shift it's worth a shot if you think it may be this?

We also got the gro clock last week and its been a little miracle but not so much with bed time, more with the night waking and morning up time but maybe worth a shot? I got ours from kiddicare - £23 delivered.

Hannah always went to bed after Thomas until she was about 6 months, Thomas would be bathed and dressed for bed at 7 then bottle and bed at 7.30 - Hannah would just be with us watching or playing with a toy whilst doing this. Then once Thomas was settled I would give Hannah half her bedtime feed (or she would kick off during her bath) and then bath and the other half of her feed then cuddles and bed for 8.30(ish). I think at around 6 months I started to creep it forward slowly (5-10 mins every few days) so they went to bed at the same time.

Could you maybe have Noah in a sling/carrier whilst sorting Milo and settling him - would that stop him crying if he is with you? Other than that - good old CC for Milo and get Noah down once he's settled? I do feel for you hun I really do

xx

Caelyn did used to scream kat so i did a gentler form of cc i used to go in at five minute intervals and put her back without a word. It took three days of hell then she worked it out. That was about a year and a bit ago and now if she does it like at four am i calmly tell her its sleepy time and walk out and she does scream but soon gets bored when i Dont come back. Then when she gets up after her sleep she gets a bit of fuss and cuddles so she knows its not been held against her. The melt downs are rare now though mostly its just shouting for a wee as a form of escaping bed. Oh and Ive asked the neighbours and they say they have never heard her. Might be worth a couple of rough nights to get it done?

Thanks Debs, Mario, it does really help to hear that! Will lose my mind if I try that and he still doesn't sleep though!

Debs, OH is 7 on 7 off, so in one way i want to get him to do milo's bedtime when he's off so i'll get a break, but then if we're switching every week milo might get confused/arsey with it? I don't know.. might not have a choice next week as I'll probably be unconscious with exhaustion by then!
Noah is normally a great sleeper, but with his blocked nose and teething he's up so often, and that's probably making it feel harder.


Mario, I would love to think that our neighbours didn't hear anything but OH and i were having a *ahem* civilised discussion in the bedroom the other day to the sound of our neighbour's quite spectacular bonking session. We actually stopped hurling insults long enough to give them a round of applause when they'd finished Did break the tension somewhat.

Thanks, you have all inspired me to keep going and be tougher with the controlled crying. I can do this!! xx

Great advice from the ladies. 1 thing ive picked up from what you've said about Milo is it seems like attention. Your worried about the neighbours or Noah when Milo kicks off you keep going in to settle him he's getting your attention. Screw the neighbours.

I have to get both ready to bed myself 3 times a week as OH is not here. They bath together. Then whilst Rowan watches mickey mouse I feed H. Once she's finished I'll put her with her fav toys or in her jumperoo. Then I'll sort Rowan out for bed. Read a story kiss and cuddle then leave the room.
Then I go and sort H for bed.

I defiantly think he needs to go down earlier but gradually every night and maybe tell him two steps ahead. So he has his tea and say to him after tea it's bath time, then after your bath cuddle time or watch fav tv to wind down or story time. Once he's in the bath say after your bath it's cuddle,tv or story time then it's time to go toned a d sleep. Then at cuddle etc time tell himafter this it's bed time. I tell Rowan through out the day what we are doing and he talks to me about it and is much happier about doing ghngs he don't want to do (currently bath time) when you put him down leave him. Also sometimes Rowan takes a teddy to bed if he won't settle and I'll say blue bear/mickey is tired he's going to sleep in your bed can you help him get to sleep. Pop the teddy in The bed all tucked up too and kiss them both goodnight.