Mari is he in a cot with sides or are they off?
I just wonder because Charlie has only just this week moved out of his cot bed which still have the sides on. I don't think he was ready to move out until now, and even in the bunk bed he is now in he has the bumper thing that keeps them from falling out.
I think for him it's a comfort thing possibly, or that I'm not so worried about when he meets milestones because I don't want him to grow up!
Maybe I'm wrong but I will let him watch tv while drinking his bottle, the falls asleep in less than 10 mins and is in bed, he's only been in the bed for 4 nights but this has worked wonders for us and he's sleeping 12 hours no problem, I will stop the DVD to fall asleep to in time but for now he's happy and sleeping well which is the main thing at the moment!

Mari, I am so far from the controlled crying thing..and that is by choice. I rocked all three of mine down for the night, or went to lie with them till they fell asleep, Shayne does this too for me some nights so I can grab a little quiet time. So far, the older two have turned out mentally stable enough(I hope), but combative bedtime routines ain't my bag either..nor hearing them scream bloody murder for hours at a time. Maky goes through spurts too of not wanting to go to bed at a decent time too, but I do know this passes, and you won't have too much trouble later on. I realize that mothers with kids very close in age cannot do this, as it would drive you insane, but my thinking is..they are only little for so long, and the night time cuddles I do look forward to. PS..Matt and Maddy both sleep in their own beds and not with me! Do what works for you and him. Hugs toots. xxx

Sorry you feel like that Mari. Was trying to give some non cry it out advice that might nevertheless work as its a bit of a halfway house but it still seems to have offended you so im out of ideas. I hope Eli grows out of it

Mari I seriously admire your determination to stick to your guns - I 'think' I understand your reasoning behind your decisions BUT have you ever considered that your fears may be misplaced and that in actual fact by trying so hard to protect him you may actually be causing more problems?

When I refer to CC/crying it out I don't actually mean walking away and leaving them to cry their little hearts out feeling lonely and abandoned - it's more a case of letting the tantrum (which is all it is) run it's course then returning to reassure and leaving again and repeating (probably every 4-5 minutes) until they pretty much exhaust themselves to sleep - may sound harsh but it is probably one of the most valuable lessons you will ever teach your child, not that you are going to abandon them but the opposite - no matter what they do you will always be there but at the same time you wont back down. It feels a little like you are asserting your stance here with us when in actual fact it's your kid you should be teaching that you wont give in.

I have a child almost exactly Elijah's age and I know exactly what level of understanding they have at this age and Terri is completely right - he has you well and truly wrapped around his little finger. If you don't start now hun this will lead to bigger and worse problems in the future. Just wait till the terrible twos kick in and no ammount of distraction will help - then what?

Just one example is these last few weeks Thomas has started pre-school, the first week was a nightmare, he wouldn't let me leave him and cried and screamed. Now I wonder what you would have done in my position - I had a choice, I could stay with my child so he didn't feel abandoned and lonely (and believe me this is what I wanted to do) or I could hand him over, turn my back and walk out listening to my child scream for me on the way. Knowing my son as I do I know that the first wasn't even an option, he would happily have made me stay all day every day and never backed down resulting in him not going to pre-school. For his own good I handed him over to relative strangers and walked away, the first day he cried/sulked for an hour on his teachers knee, the second - 20 minutes, the third 5 minutes and since he has been more than happy to go. He is now well settled and really enjoying himself - if I hadn't put myself through that he would still be stuck home bored with me and Hannah and the difference in him over these last few weeks has been amazing - he is coming on leaps and bounds. I'm sorry I'm waffling a bit but I'm trying to show that sometimes we have to do things we really don't believe in or feel comfortable with for the sake of our child. CC is exactly the same - it is not good for your son to have such a broken sleep pattern as he gets older, it will have long lasting effects on his ability to learn and his overall behavior. It is also not at all good for you personally and your family as a whole.

I really don't want to come over as patronising here hun, we have had long winded discussions about this in the past and we haven't always agreed or seen eye to eye but I hope you understand that I only have yours and your sons best interest at heart, I would never suggest doing anything I wouldn't do myself or anything I think would cause even a fraction of harm to your child. I'm by no means a super mum but I have had my fair share of sleep problems with my kids (the male one in particular) and I think the vast majority of ladies here have been through it at one point or another and we can only give the advice we took ourselves that worked. Nobody here is trying to undermine your beliefs but I think we are all just very frustrated at the fact that this really could be the answer to all your problems (everything else having been exhausted), you clearly need an answer to your issues but having been given a potential solution you aren't even willing to listen never mind give it a go. We all want the best for you both, we aren't trying to be smart arses and beat you down into trying something you don't want to but then again there are gonna be a lot of times in your career as a mother where you are going to have to make decisions you aren't entirely happy with so now seems a good place to start.

Whatever you decide - good luck hun but I honeslty think you are cutting your nose of to spite both your's and your sons face on this occasion.

xx

Well said Debs, good luck Mari x

Very good points made. None of us are having a pop. We all admire you trying as long as you have with as little sleep. What Debs suggsted is kinda what I meant by the 5 minute return. Shows you are not backing down whilst reassuring them they are not being left and you may go away but will always return. Worked in about 2 nights for me.

I know how frustrating it is to be told something you dont want to hear-as the mother of a fussy eater I detest the advice that she will eat when she is hungry enough as I refuse to starve my child to get her to eat. But in that case I have found a solution that works in a sense for me. She may not eat everything I put in front of her but I AM getting her 5 a day in her now and a good variety. Its my version of a 5 minte return-a halfway house where I am not doing the thing I am detesting but also am standing my ground and letting her run roughshod over me.

I am depserately hoping you find a solution that works for you. I dont make the suggestion of the 5 minute return because i am winding you up. I have a very good friend called Helen who's little girl is 10 now and has never slept a full night in her life meaning Helen has been sleep deprived for ten years now. IN a couple years her little one will be old enough to just be leftto her own devices over night and Helen can sleep again but while it will be over for her Freya will probably now be an insomniac adult for the rest of her life. I know shes a pretty extreme case but I would hate to see you and Eli go through the worry, exhaustion and heartbreak my friend has so seeing you at the end of your tether is the main reason I put it forward-for your and his long term sanity

mariheartselijah wrote:

honest to god. i have just spent 2 hours with elijah screaming, headbutting, smacking his head off everything in sight, nipping, punching, kicking and throwing himself onto the floor.....because it was bedtime.

I'm not being funny but do you honestly think that behaviour is less damaging than leaving him to cry for a few minutes? You being with him doesn't seem to be working what if it's actually making him behave like this?
Just a thought.

Might be an idea to drop the topic now seens as Mari has obviously taken offense to some of what's been said and decided to take time out because of it.