the article itself is short and dull but the comments from polar opposites are quite interesting to read, particularly the furthest back one and the responses to it.

i think everybody knows where i stand and im not posting this to stress anyone out, but i do think it's worth consideration http://www.pampers.co.uk/en_GB/parenting-articles/sleep-training-for-troublesome-toddlers/5499?utm_source=nwl_post&utm_medium=email_html&utm_term=A065&utm_content=5499&utm_campaign=nwl

It is interesting, especially the bit about how the person that started cc wouldn't do it anymore. However, like you I think people know where I stand and I'm not judging anyone who does do it so not going to say anymore as this is a topic that once I get properly started on I won't stop!

The first comment is ridiculous! I have left Harry to cry on several occasions, quick - call childline!! Stupid woman!

Only skimmed the article, but this comment made me laugh..

"Would you ignore your husband if he was upset just because it's night-time?!" Yes, frankly!! Especially if he was whining about work and I was tired, too right I'd ignore him!

*checks in case there is a Husbandline*

lol Husbandline!!!

I never had to do CC - and I feel for anyone that is needing to try it...but the way I see it is I'd rather try that than have a 3 year old that STILL won't get into bed and go to bloody sleep on it's own!
Sleep is a skill to be learnt just like many things in life - teaching your child to sleep is a very important thing! You don't let your kid eat shit just cos thats the way it wants to do it..so why allow it to mess around at sleep time!

It is interesting and the comments have made me think about how I will handle sleep/routines this time round.

I didnt do cc when Caitlin was a baby eg under 1. BUT I suppose I do it to a degree now. Eg most nights Caitlin stands at stair gate in room and whinges/crys/shouts for 5-10 min before going to sleep. She gets totally ignored and 9 times out of 10 puts herself back into bed and goes to sleep. In the morning she is happy and I dont think she is traumatised by the night before.

If I went in and sat with her till she fell asleep I would be there hours - Iv tried it! With a new baby I cant do that. How could you BF a baby and rock your toddler to sleep at the same time? Before I was pg I would have brought Caitlin into my bed some nights but alot of the time she just messed about and took longer to settle to sleep than she does now. There is some nights I miss sniffing her hair in her sleep but in the long run I personally think its better for her to settle herself as when baby comes along it wouldnt be fair to have her in my bed and me be shuffling about BF every other hr.

Each to their own I suppose. I really dont believe I have damaged Caitlin, or she loves me less. I can see how its nice for mum and baby/toddler to cuddle to sleep - its just not practical for me. I dont like seeing Caitlin upset at bedtimes but I think its more that she is pissed off she cant stay up and play and not that she is scared/abandoned/rejected. If anything I suppose thinking about this has made me determined to get baby into a better sleep routune earlier, rather than waiting until they are a willful toddler. Ideally I would like to avoid CC but Im not ruling it out.

TBH I'm a little bit shocked at how against CC some people are, I really didnt think it was that contraversial.



I did CC with Libby, mainly during the day as she would only sleep on me and it wasn't good quality sleep so she needed to go in her cot. From 6 months til about 18 months she had 2 naps in the day for around an hour each and from 6 months slept through the night from 7pm til 6-7am. She doesnt hate me, she's not traumatised and is a happy, intelligent little girl.



As some of you have seen I decided to try CC with Dexter, whereas before he was waking every half hour to an hour and I was having to nurse him or cuddle him back to sleep (this was to stop him waking Libby or Simon - not because I dont agree with CC) and sometimes this would take an hour, he now sleeps brilliantly. For example - last night went to bed at 7pm, straight to sleep - woke at 1am for some milk, straight back to sleep and slept til 730am. He is much happier in the day because hes getting a good quality nights sleep.



For the comments to suggest that leaving a child/baby to cry is child abuse is in my opinion a bit naive. Dexter was up until recently a nightmare to put down, would scream as soon as he left my arms, I have another child to care for, if she needed food I would have to put him down to sort her out, am I abusing him then?? And the same with leaving Libby when she is having a tantrum, I'm sorry but when she is asking have chocolate just before dinner time what am I supposed to do? If she has a full blown tantrum and we ignore her she'll be over it in a few mins, I cannot molly coddle her when I've also got Dexter to deal with.



Like I said I think a few of the comments are VERY naive.

Suse what you say is spot on. If one baby is crying and the other child needs feeding, what do you do.

I think those comments made are very narrow minded. I never ever wanted to use CC, i did not want my son upset or feeling like i had abandoned him. but like Dexter he would never sleep more then 20-40 mins. as soon as he was put down he scream. he'd even scream when he was held and could take up to an hour to get him to sleep even in my arms. then would only sleep 20-40 mins. He was unhappy during the day as he was so tired.

So I tried CC on his first nap of the day took less then 4 minutes and he was asleep. By bed time that same day he'd got that he was able to fall asleep himself. the next day with him was amazing, i;d never seen him so happy and playful. by this time he was almost 8 months.

If i have the option of not doing it with H then I won't but if i need to i will

I think a lot of those parents underestimate their toddlers, they are very clever little people

wow I can't believe some of the comments... i've not had to do CC as such, but if Tylers whining in his cot, or in the day because he's got himself in a mood over something I will leave him to calm down...



am I a bad mum if I put him in his cot for a minute as a punishment when he kicks me? because he cries then too but not because i've traumatised him just because he can!



if I gave him everything he wanted and tried to avoid tantrums I would be a nervous wreck by now! He had a ful blown crying screaming tantrum because I gave him some paper to draw on - I can only assume it was the wrong colour paper and that caused the tantrum but I ignored him until he stopped and was palying happily again and Ive not had a tantrum from him since.



Either the children of the parents making these ludacris (sp) comments are complete angels who don't need to be ignored or the parents are just stupid lol

We had to do it for a couple of days with Aimee when she was about 15 months old. It worked a treat.

I personally wouldnt do it on a baby less than 6 months old, but after that, then they are clever little things and know exactly how to play us, and can (not always) use tears as a way to get their own way.

x

I have had to use cc with Amelia. We started from birth with good sleep practises. She was never rocked to sleep and if she fell asleep feeding or whist having a cuddle she was laid in her moses basket and allowed to sleep without being disturbed. She has always been able to self soothe. She's generally calm and relaxed about sleep and boy does she sleep and always has done. However once she learnt that she had an influence over mummy and daddy by crying she started to use it more frequently until we realised she was working us. We used it for 3 days and the longest she cried for was 10 mins when she was about 11 months old. Then we had a happy girly who settled herself to sleep with giggles and chatter. Again I had to use it after Lisa and I went to Cornwall as she was using the threat of being sick not to go to sleep and it was so difficult as I was concerned she was becoming very fearful of being physically sick (this is my phobia and I DON'T want to pass it on to her) so again I had to use cc. I needed to pop in and reassure her everything was fine but it was definitely time to go to sleep. I used it for 4 days and the longest she cried/whinged for was 20 mins. Again after this she went straight back to being her usual happy cheerful little self and loves her bedtime again. I couldn't ask for a better sleeper and the consistant approach I use with cc helps her so much as she knows I'm there and that I love her, but that it is time to stop and sleep. IMO with Amelia's personality I think I'd cause her much more distress if I tried to cuddle her or sit with her through it. I've learnt from experience that Amelia loves and audience and any upset just carries on for longer and longer and longer.

That child abuse comment is ridiculous

I did CC with Imogen at 5months and I have no regrets. Best thing we did for her. She had always been a decent sleeper and suddenly she just started waking up and wanting cuddles. First few nights we thought maybe she was ill but it soon became apparent she just wanted to be attention and at 3am I'm not willing to give her that attention. All it was going to teach her was that she had to scream and cry and I'd do anythign she wanted, and I don't want her raised that way. Call me a bad parent but I don't care really, we did CC, it worked and we all got a good nights sleep and were therefore much happier in the day.

We've had to redo it a couple of times, because of broken routine (holidays, illness etc) and it's always worked just as well. And i'll be doing it with new baby if I need to.

I guess i'm being quite blunt but I don't agree with pandering to children who are just having tantrums to get what they want, whether it be day or night. We all know our children and how to handle them though so I wouldn't enforce my view on others or accuse them of child abuse.

Aha I always wondered why I was a little slow and slightly dim - now I know it's because I'm brain damaged because my parents abused me as a child by ignoring my tantrums and teaching me to sleep at night



Oh purleeeeeeaaassseee!!! I mean WTF?

It's parents like those that are bringing up the type of molly coddled spoiled little brats that think the world owes them something because they have never heard the word NO or been allowed to figure things out for themselves! The type that think it's ok to go around destroying and taking other peoples property because they weren't handed a job or a wedge of money the minute they left the school gates. It's no wonder society has changed so much and we have things like riots and awful behaviour in schools these days when parents are being encouraged to bow to their childs every whim in fear of them ringing childline/SS because mummy wouldn't buy them the latest iPod or, god forbid, made them go to bed at night

Some people seriously need to get a grip!

Rant over feel much better now

xx

I don't think you can say that people that don't do cc just say no to their children. I don't agree with it and won't do it with Jamie. However, I will use other sleep training methods and say no at other times despite him having a tantrum. I just personally think that there is a big difference between a child throwing a tantrum and just leaving your child to cry at night. I'm quite happy to leave him to whine and grizzle but I'm not just going to let him cry. However, that's my personal opinion and I'm not saying anything against people that use cc. Certainly the child abuse comment is going too far.

I agree at Jamies age it's a different situation but you may change your mind when you have an 18 month old having a full on tantrum at 2am because they want to watch tv/play outside/eat crisps/sleep in your bed etc You have 2 choices - give in and allow them to do what they want (thin end of the wedge!) or ignore them

Somebody please call SS for me - my children are abused!

I'm not saying parents who don't do CC are breeding spoiled brats because not everybody needs to do it, if you find another method that works for you then fine but a LOT of parents end up with basically no other choice. What I'm saying is that it's the whole attitude of "oh no mustn't upset the little people or they might grow up to hate us so must give in to their every whim and let them away with murder or SS will be on the door step" that is causing the problems we are currently seeing in society.

I think the stress is finally getting to me if you want me I shall be out in the rain setting fire to my soap box

xx

I don't think its abuse at all. Actually I have no problem with it when they're older. I won't do it with Jamie now because he doesn't understand but once I can reason with him (and I use that word in the loosest sense) so say Mummy loves you but you're not getting up, etc then I have no problem with it.

Like I say I have no problem with other people doing it anyway. I think its up to each parent to know best how to discpline their children. Partly I don't do it because it just wouldn't work on Jamie. He doesn't need much sleep which I can understand as I don't either.

I think actually we probably have fairly similar views but are both on our soapboxes a bit. Perhaps I should go and burn mine as well

hmm i've got to say ladies i am surprised and actually quite disappointed by some of the responses to this! i thought we were all a bit more open minded but it seems i was wrong!

the point wasn't to accuse anybody of child abuse but to look at the issue as a whole and how interesting it was that everyone has different views.

what a shame.

Glad its not just me that was feeling a bit like this. It really winds me up (and this is aimed at people generally rather than people here) that I'm considered some kind of freak because I won't do cc rather than people seeing it as my choice. My assistant head basically told me I was an idiot (although not in so many words) for not doing it

I'm not seeing what the problem is mari - you've posted this in the debates section, an article which has some pretty harsh comments attached to it - people are just saying what they feel about it - don't really know what else you expected tbh

People who have done CC get accused of being cruel by those who think its a horrible thing to do...and those who don't do it seem to think that everyone who does it thinks they are soft

If you are happy with how you are raising your child then get on with it - I won't feel bad for any choice I make for Isabelle if its what i think is best, regardless of what other think

I don't think anybody is an idiot for not doing it, it's personal choice and if you find a better way that suits your family then great.

What I do find a bit daft is people (not here, I was more replying to the article responses than anyone here tbh - thought that was the point of the OP) who are so dead set against CC that they make up stupid excuses like 'it's child abuse', 'it casues brain damage', 'my kids will grow up to hate me/be insecure' etc to justify the fact that they sit up night after night tearing their hair out with a baby/toddler who just hasn't learned to sleep properly. The phrase 'cutting your nose off to spite your face' springs to mind tbh.

CC isn't for everyone that's fair enough but it does work for a lot of people and they shouldn't be made to feel they are damaging their kids in some way because they don't pick them up the second they whinge. I completely agree with what the other mummy's of 2 or more have said about simply HAVING to let your kids cry at certain times for the sake of the others, it's difficult enough being a mum without being told your kids are abused because they cry for more than 2 seconds without being hoiked onto a shoulder/hip.

Again this is in reply to the comments in the article not anyone here, as far as I'm aware nobody here on BANDA would come out with riciulous statements about abuse and brain damage when discussing CC

xx

You're right Lisa. I guess its just one of those topics that people feel strongly about and that many of us have been critised for whatever we've done. I know I can be a bit sensitive about it

Debs I know you wouldn't. I totally agree that some of the comments are ridiculous and that sometimes you just have no choice.

I think this has just got a bit out of hand or people are taking everyones comments on here personally...

mari liberty no one is referring to you when we say people who don't use CC are soft or stupid etc but that the people making comments on that article are clearly dilussional if they really truly think they can bring their children up well by molly coddling them and giving in to there every demand,



I can't speak for everyone but the comment that stood out most to me was actually the one referring to dealing with tantrums that said something like parents who ignore a tantrumming chlid are causing the child damage and that the child is having a tantrum because it's the only way it can express itself... that may be somewhat true for babies that cry in that they can't communicaate any other way but toddlers know full well how to get what they want in a nice way, or they tantrum... the parents that give in to those tantrums will more than likely end up with a terror of a child.



I know neither of you who are against CC also fall into the category of allowing your child to scream and get what they want as a result of it!



I haven't used CC but only because I haven't needed it - but right now Tyler is in his cot chatting away and im leaving him but form some of the things these commenters on the artice say, they would see what i mdoign as abuse and i should up there with him until he falls asleep!



CC is always going to cause debates because for some parents it is just too hard to allow your child to cry that isn't a bad thing as long as some other "technique" is used instead... but I think we all agree that cuddling a child continuosly to sleep to save them "trauma" really isn't going to help anyone in the long run.

Mari, I was responding to the comments on the article, in no way was I saying CC is the way to go for everyone - its just what I've felt I had to do for my children.



Its obviously a subject that is going to cause debate its either something you agree with or not.



xxx

Use controlled crying on all my kids and they have always had a fantastic bedtime routine, no bedtime problems here. (or head/brain problems)

TBH i really dont care how anyone else does it in their household, i have no right to judge, i may have an opinion but that doesnt mean i am right, i just know which way works for my kids and i have stuck to it. Doesnt make me (or anyone else doing it) a bad mother and 12 years after i first used this technique on my first child, she certainly doesnt have any issues (apart from being a gobby twat) regarding cc i did 12-13 years ago!

With my first child it was a last resort, with my 4th child it was CC crying from the first instance, because it works.

Don't want to upset anyone but for me cc is the best bit of advice I ever got! I've done it with all mine. The cc exercise lasted two nights for a couple of hours!

My kids are well cared for and Not abused

Ellie goes to bed at 7.30pm and gets herself to sleep (usually with a sing song)oh and I then have a nice evening and always get a fantastic nights sleep.