I havent read up on everything that is going on with the teachers, hospital staff, etc.

But, I dont understand the strike action.

My work cancelled our pensions last November. It was a case of 'lose your company pension contribution or lose your job' - so we just accepted that we needed our jobs and the pensions were cancelled.

I dont want to start a war, especially as I dont know the full facts, so if anybody wants to enlighten me im more than willing to listen to both sides, but surely in this economic climate we all need to understand that cuts have to be made somewhere?

I must say though, that if there was a child who died today in hospital due to the strike action and lack of staffing, then surely somebody somewhere needs to answer for this?

I'm like you hun and don't know the ins and outs of the whole 'pension' arguments but I totally disagree with the strike.

There are many many working families out there that have had to lose a days pay today because their kids teachers are striking and they don't have alternative childcare. This on top of the fact that they have probably already taken hits in their own private sector pensions, tax credits frozen/reduced and pay rises well below inflation that to lose a days pay so close to Christmas will hit a lot of people hard.

I understand that people have a right to strike and should stand up for themselves but I do think it's a very selfish way of going about it. My dad and husband have taken major hits to their pensions, low pay rises. no Christmas bonus' etc this year but like you they had to suck it up to keep their job and a roof over their heads. We all know the current economic situation and it has hit everyone (admittedly some more than others) but I do know that public sector pensions are very good anyway and were probably just set too high in the first place.

I agree with your last point too hun - if it was to turn out that people had died due to under staffing then shame on them! I applaud Mario for working through the strike too! Well done you!

xx

xx

I work in the public sector and am not a member of the union so crossed the picket line this morning to go into work. Had I have been a member of the union, even though I may not have agreed with the strike I would have abided by the decision.
TBH I don't know fully what the "in and outs" are of the dispute but I think in a nut shell it is we are being asked to pay in more and will get less out.
There is definately a false perception of the public sector amongst the general public and I think alot of it is bad reporting by the press, yes, there are certain parts which have these brilliant pensions, nice little golden handshake deals when they retire but this is very few and far between, probably similiar to CEO's in the private sector but the vast majority are not on fantastic pensions.
Also just to add in, we've not had a payrise for three years, do not get bonus' and always seem to get a bit of a battering from the press and at times are made to feel like a parasite for working in the public sector as if it is all "take take take" when it is far from that at all.
I think it's all very well MP's saying we are all in it together etc but I bet their pensions won't be affected and they get their yearly wage rises.
Hope this hasn't come across as a rant but just thought I'd give an insight into what it is really like in the public sector.

I think the problem with the press reporting is that they've made it into a private v public sector war a little bit when in fact we should all be standing shoulder to shoulder against the government. The fact is both sectors have had pay freezes, Matt hasn't had a Pay rise in 3 years or a bonus. The majority of private companies don't contribute towards employee pensions at all.

There is good and bad on both sides of the fence. I just hope this strike is the end of it and they can come to an agreement

Thats a point, we havent had a pay rise for 3 years either. I work in the property sector btw, which has to be the worst sector to work in with the economic crisis.

I must admit, I have had bonuses, but not our company ones, they are ones that are offered as part of the maternity package, so dont count really (although it is handy to keep popping the babies out ).

x

Matt works in the construction industry so in all honesty he's lucky to have a job. One of the major factors that made me move from mortgages is that my pay and bonuses were cut and my benefits package reduced, it's bad all round really

I completely agree Mandy, I think bad reporting has made it into public v private when it shouldn't be like that at all and as you say we should be shoulder to shoulder.
As a side point by squeezing the public sectior in other areas such as some of the cuts it will have a major impact on the private sector as alot of private sector contracts rely on the public sector.
I think if there is to be any other type of action the unions should be savvy and call a strike in areas which will if possible affect the government and not the general public but not sure how this would be done.

i feel sorry for the kids its them that are missing out on education i know its only a days strike but ive heard there is going to be another one in the new year and this is far from over not sure how true this is.xxxxx

The important thing that most people don't understand is that its not that there isn't any money for the pensions ... but that the government are taking the excess that being paid in now

For example (made up figures) current staff pay £300 a year TOTAL nationwide
Retired staff are paid £200 a year TOTAL nationwide

The government is TAKING that £100 difference


Im sure thats not the only thing they are complaining about -but people seem to think they are moaning about their pension being cut - thats not the case, they are paying into he fund and the money is not staying in the fund...which means down the line the money wont be there for their pension..so in very simple terms the private sector pensions are being used to sub the british economy ... or even see it that they have an extra 'tax to pay' that they will get no benefit from

I think striking in this climate is just making the problem worse. People should consider themselves lucky to have jobs at all.
I haven't had a pay rise in 4 years but i've gone from being a lowly "administrator" with no responsibility to a company Director with all the repsonsibility.. if I cock up I could lose my house but I sitll haven't had a pay rise.. I don't get maternity leave (I do but I am working from home so not the same) and I'm pretty much on call 24/7. I don't even have a pension.
But I wouldn't strike... I'm lucky to have a good job and I know that when the company can afford to me pay me more they will and when the UK is in a better economoic position then maybe these cuts will be reversed but throwing toys out of prams isn't helping the situation at the moment.

from what i understand is that with the pension we paying more in than we getting out, part of working for the local government is the pension, the pay is sometimes the lowest and the pension always was suppose to be why people accepted the low pay.

in the private sector a person doing the same job as me gets 3 times my pay, and when they come in the office as agency, because alot of people wont work for local autorities especially in my area (due to pay) they actually get paid more than the person managing them... we've had people turning down 35pound an hour because its not enough, i dont get anywhere near that.

so the government having a go at the pensions is like a kick in the teeth. basically people will be leaving because they get paid more in private sector, so wont be any staff anyway

most areas have been covered

and in regard to schools, kids are not missing out, i've seen it as an extra day with my eldest and we've had a great day,

as for payrise, not had one for a while and after yesterday looks like we not going to get a decent payrise for sometime, in line with inflation

people are worse off and yet they are not complaining.x people have lost there homes due to redunacies homes been repossessed ect and they would love to get bck out their and into work so i agree with jade they should count themselves lucky they have a decent income coming in.its not even teachers ect losing out but the kids.xxxxxx.

So because people are worse off... no one has the right to fight for what is theirs - its THEIR money that they have paid in to their pensions!

There will always be someone worse off - that's a pathetic reason not to stand up for your rights.....People starve to death in Africa ... in that case not one person in the UK has a right to moan about anything??? Seriously?>?

I am usually against strikes ... but this isn't just greed, this is fighting for what is theirs anyway!

I'm not sure there is a worse sector to work in. Hubby is in the private sector and didn't have a pay rise for two years. However, I'm getting a pay freeze until 2015 (and have had them anyway) and even in good times got less than inflation so it still wasn't really one if you see what I mean. Hubby has faced redundacies at his place and we have them at school now. I think both have advantages and disadvantages and a lot depends on your view. My sister works in the private sector in finance (although she's in Singapore now). She gets paid a fortune and gets massive bonuses so many would say she's lucky but she often works until midnight or beyond

As for the strikes - there is money in the pot for pensions. Public sector workers (certainly teachers and the NHS but don't know about the rest) pay more into the pot than we take out every year so basically what the government want us to do is to pay more and get less while also getting pay freezes. I don't think people mind working longer. I also don't think people would mind paying more if there actually wasn't enough money (which the Hutton report said there was) but its the fact we're being used to pay off the deficit. Not saying its right or wrong but that's what its about

100% what Lisa says!!!! This is about people paying in money thinking its towards their pensions and the government taking it to pay for other things leaving them with less than they thought they would get when they retire. Its their own money being taken!

Iv paid almost £300 into a pension scheme during my 3 months work in SS. Im not in a union, and on mat leave today anyway, but if I knew the govt were just going to lift out £100 that I had made the decision to save Id be frigging livid! How about the govt lift out money from people's savings accounts??? Is that ok?

All that said, I agree that it would be horrible if someone suffered due to strikes. Im thankful i wasnt put in the position were I had to decide what to do. I had thought though that cover was being put in place and Dr's weren't striking, my MW app went ahead today as normal & all emergency measures were put in place to protect public from harm. Alot of ppl arent in unions and would have worked today.

But thats the thing though snoops - people will suffer, that;s the whole point of striking surely - to cause a disruption. Ok people may not die but lots and lots of people are out of pocket today because they have had to take unpaid leave to look after their kids that should be in school getting their education.

Once again it's the average working family that gets hit hardest but this time it's not the government it's the guys they are supposed to 'stand shoulder to shoulder' with, it's no wonder that the majority of people are against the whole thing.

A full day's wage lost just before christmas will hit already stretched working families hard at this time of year. Parents are threatened with prosecution for taking their kids out of school during term time without permission - I'm sure the teachers haven't got consent forms from the parents to chuck the kids out on the street for a day If we lost a days wage right now we would struggle and I don't think that's fair on hard working families and it WILL affect the kids inadvertently.

xx

I will go on the record and say whilst I chose not to strike it doesnt mean Im not behind the principle. I simply decided I couldnt reconcile striking with my code of conduct and duty of care and that if someone were to die as a result of staffing I couldnt not hold myself accountable.

But I agree whilst Im not sure striking is the way forward an ongoing attitude of oh well what can we do is what allows Big Brother to continue to milk thenation with the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer.

In a nutshell whats happening is:

The government is looking to change the workers contributions from 6% to 9% from 2015 (with lower accrual rates already in place lowering their returns by 25%) and then work longer yet receive less at the end of their working lives due to the change in inflation indexing-currently a loss of 8.5% to pensions by 2017. Ive personally looked at the calculator and should expect to see a 5000 pound a year loss to my pension under the new proposals. In addition any public sector services which are privatised means those workers will lose their public sector pension totally.

The media is claiming that the continuing public sector pensions are untenable for the economy yet what public sector workers pay in outnumbers what is paid out by 2 billion pound a year, which is seamlessly absorbed by the treasury so essentially works out as an additional tax on public sector workers. Essentially public sector pensions at present BOOST the economy by that 2bn-and thats JUST the NHS pension. The new reforms would boost it to 2.8bn so nearly a billion a year extra which would again disappear into the vast black hole of the economy despite the fact that the unions have already identified alternative measures which could save the same amount of money per year without having to make these refors. Most of it is probably going to pay for the bankinh crisis bail out.

In 2008 the accrual rates were changed and the retirement ages were changed to ensure that actually the pensions were robust enough to make the public pension tenable for many more years to come. The new proposed reforms come simply from employers wanting to contribute less. Short term savings with long term negative impact as many people will choose to leave the scheme and live on state pensions and benefits instead which will simply increase the pressure on the state rather than reducing it. Eventually that will lead to tax increases which is hardly going to reduce the burden on private sector workers. A recent report suggests this could be the case for as many as 350,000 people. And despite what the media would have you believe about gold plated pensions the average public sector pension is still only 7500 as many public sector workers are manual low paid workers with associated lower life expectancies and morbidities. By keeping public sector pensions viable there will be more state pension availability for private sector workers. And at the end of the day 1 in 5 tax payers is a public sector worker so there is a lot of tax paid in by the public sector.

The unions also dont want this to be private vs public pensions. By keeping public sector pensions strong private sector workers have more leverage to inprove their own schemes. The more people bow down the easier it is to subdue the masses.

And may I say if you wanna pay less tax dont feel you should pay less into pensions contributions, how about not doubling international aid which includes countries classed as stable for some years now while our own economy founders.

Ive seen nursing numbers slashed by 30% in the years ive worked in the ED. Ask me how that safe guards you and your families.

There are too many cuts happening too fast. No i dont agree with striking but i also think the attitude of oh well what can we do is about the worst thing we CAN do

I also think reducing public sector pensions will make it harder to recuit workers into these areas. The nursing workforce is aging and its getting harder to get people into nursing and midwifery and the pension at the end is def an incentive. Lowering it makes it an even less attractive package. If theres not enough nurses it opens up more and more need to use expensive agency options meaning more money needed to fund the nhs and higher taxes for this. Again hitting the common working man in the pocket whilst reducingt front life staff available to care for them. Essentially the issues go deeper than pensions.

I have been a nurse or a care worker since i was 17. Ive been punched in the face, ive been kicked til my arms were black and blue, kicked in the ribs, had people go for my throat, i have been spat on, puked on, p*ssed on, barfed on and sh*t on. Ive been called some of the most appalling names under the sun, had every aspect of my personality insulted. I have gone home crying my eyes out over the things i have seen and had nightmares about the same. i can still close my eyes now and see soe of that in my head. I often work 13 hour shifts on a ten minute drink break and see some of the very worst of people. i would never denigrate what other people have to do in their jobs as nobody has it cushy but people in public services generally are NOT in it for the money. Its things like this that make it less attractive to do and things like the pension that make it realistic to keep going. Take that away and how many good people will choose not to bother to take the crap anymore. Im not getting at a single private sectr worker. God knows I wouldnt wanna do some of your jobs either but driving people away is not going to safeguard your health and safety or your childrens education

I have thought about this subject before replying and can only comment on what has affected me today and millions of other parents.
In principle I totally agree with what the strikers are fighting for and think its a disgrace that the government are doing this. But.....on the other side of the coin what about all the parents that have also had to take a day off work today unpaid, what do they get out of this, they don't have a choice about the strikes they have no choice but to take a day off work to look after their children. I saw on another forum an argument about this and a teacher said people were just pissed as they don't have their babysitter for the day, this annoyed me as by law we have to send our children to school, we don't get a choice and do not see it as a babysitting service, we already run our working lives around school hours and the disruption it has cause to so many families, plus leaving many out of pocket when it doesn't benefit them at all is just wrong. Like I said I can only comment on the schools because its really the only thing that has affect me.

I agree Mara the strikes have inconvenienced a lot of people and can totally see why that comment would upset you. Ive always maintained striking is not going to win the hearts and minds of the public. I know the postal strikes certainly didnt endear me to their cause. But you do have to wonder down the line how do people take a stand. The bigger fault is that the government force people into a corner where striking is all that makes them sit back and take notice.

I totally agree and it's a shame it has to come to this, I also feel people have been backed into a corner and it's wrong that people like teachers and the nhs staff etc are being thought bad of, I can totally understand the public sectors frustration at what's happening, I just wish it didn't have to have such a rippled affect on the rest of the country as I can also see why so many people are angry over the strikes x

I can also see how it must be a pain in the rear ... but the only ones to blame are the government - they had plenty of opportunity to sort this out, striking is the last resort - the government should sit up, take notice, stop STEALING the pension fund and learn that people will not put up with this sh!t

I really think the only ones who will ever know fully how what the government is doing is affecting people are the ones in public service - and that ONE day of inconvenience to parents etc really is very insignificant when compared to the massive impact on those that feel the need to strike

No i can totally understand why its upset people and I said to Neil its not gonna win public support or get the message across adequetely as most people believe the lies in the media ie that we all retire at 55 on whacking big pensions that have drained the treasury and now feel even more aggrieved at losing a days work due to the strikes and who could blame them. Yet things are only gonna get worse I fear.

An interestig point posed to me today was that the government can give the country the day off for the royal wedding without a dent in the economy yet 1 day of strikes cos ts the treasury half a billion??? Im no accountant but anyone else find thats a glaring discrepancy. Though i am not saying thats the same for the common person and their child care problems. Just the wider picture

Would just like to point out I am not personally angry about it just about various comments that have been made, my sympathy totally lies with the strikers, but I can see it from both sides x

Donna I can see how that comment upset you and don't agree with it. However, I think it came about because teachers were getting abused and the poster felt angry - still no reason why she should have made it. I feel really guilty about the impact that the strike had on parents and I think most teachers feel the same way. TBH I can't really afford to lose a days wages and I had a choice (although I felt like I had to strike) so I can understand how tough it is for the parents that were hit.

I don't think strikes are the right way to deal with it but then what else do you do? TBH I can't imagine the government are going to pay any attention to them anyway. Perhaps if the gov started to make sacrifices public sector workers may feel more willing to consider them. I guess when it comes down to it its something you can't solve. Unless every public sector worker just opted out of the pension scheme (which is not something you're ever going to be able to organise) then I don't think there is a way of protesting that doesn't hit normal people and just hits the government. I did hear comments on the news today about many more strikes (although with all the bad reporting there has been I don't know if I believe that) but I hope it doesn't come to that