Caitlin for the last few months has made a right song & dance about getting her nappy changed. However in the last few weeks progress has been made and she has started telling us when she has done poops and maybe 60% coming and lying straight down to get changed when asked. The rest of the time she's a right terror - screaming, kicking and rolling off the mat.

Saturday morning I was in the kitchen and heard Stuart ask her to come and lie down to get changed. Caitlin was in defiant mode and shouted no. He must have asked her about 6 times, with her shouting NO at increasing volume. Stu then told her if she didnt lie down he was going to phone her granda and tell him she was being naughty and that he would never take her out again (Caitlin adores days out with granda & nanny). Caitlin still wouldnt lie down so Stuart makes a fake phone call to granda which sends Caitlin nuts. He asks her again to lie down - NO! So Stu the tells her she will not get ice lollys ever again unless she does... all this achieves is Caitlin goes more mental . Then he tells her if she doesnt lie down TV going off for rest of day.... cue Caitlin going ape shit, tv being switched off and her still not lying down. He then begins to remove about 4 of her fave toys 1 by 1..... Caitlin then comes running to me inconsolable in the kitchen.

I feel that all Stu did was agrivate the situation. In Caitlins wee head her granda didnt want to see her anymore which upset her, in the middle of dealing with that emotion she then gets told no more lollys ever, then the TV goes, then her toys... no bloody wonder she wouldnt co operate. Her head couldnt cope with what was happening.

I had words with Stuart after (didnt step in at time as we kinda have a rule about letting one parent see something through so she doesnt play us off one another). He made another fake phone call to granda and told her he loved her (I think that went over her head totally), gave the toys back and Caitlin eventually got her nappy changed as I told stuart just to pin her down and get on with it. Stuart thinks im too soft and if we continue to just force her she wont learn to do as she is told.

Do you lie to or threaten your toddler? Does it work? I suppose it could be called reasoning but im not sure Caitlin quite able to process consequences yet, well not at the speed stuart was dishing them out! Was I too soft and Stuart has the right idea?

I think there should be consequences but i agree with you that stuart was too confusing and it was all probably too much for her. We do the calm voice "i am going to count to three and if you do not sit still/get up then you will ...." We usually say go on naughty step/not have tv but i would go for whatever single thing you think is the most effective.

I have found this to work quite well but i would not use this method once a full on strop is underway as i think when they are shouting and screaming they are past the point of reason.

Oh gosh, you have a clever one there! Lucky you! I agree I don't think that she would have been able to process all she was hearing - not because she wouldn't get it but because once they're in that angry zone I doubt very much goes in.. I know Milo understands a lot of what I say, but as soon as he hears "no" he goes into a meltdown and anything more I say does not go in at all, just aggravates him more and more. I could be saying "you'll never get another cookie ever again!" or "lets calm down and eat 100 cookies!" and it would have the same effect iykwim.. just the sound of my voice sets him off

I just have to try to say "no" then walk away and wait for him to calm down and get to a stage where he can listen. Can't do it every time, and sometimes even if i can it seems to take him forever to calm down but thats still faster than if i'm "arguing" with him.

So, the short version I agree with you, and I would just try to walk away when she has a meltdown then talk about consequences when she's calmed down. Good luck, I know it sucks!!

See its hard to walk away when you actually want them to do something? Im worried thats teaching her that if she screams she gets her own way and delays the nappy change. I suppose 10 min in a dirty nappy wouldnt do any harm but. Its so true about the cookie thing

I think another problem is that all Stuart managed to teach her is (if she even fully understood what he was saying) that he doesnt follow through eg TV was back on within 20 mins, the toys were put back in box & she got taken to the village for an ice cream that afternoon. Nothing was achieved apart from a tantrum.

I agree Kate, we should probably think of one consequence and stick to it.

I see what Stuart was trying to do but tbh I think once they get in that angry zone, especially at this age, they don't seem to listen to much. And seen as he couldn't follow through (tv back on, ice cream in afternoon) it seems completely pointless.

Imogen can be a right moo for nappy change. I've got really good at doing it while she is standing up Threatening her with things taken away doesn't work at all, probs cause she cant fully comprehend and also cause she doesn't care a lot about her toys/tv.

When I really do need her to lie down, I ask her, if she says no I give her a warning of 5secs if she still isn't laying down then i grab her and pin her down. If she hits and kicks, I warn her that she'll go to the naughty area (our downstairs all, it's just a little area) if she continues and if she does keep on then as soon as nappy is done she has 2mins in naughty area. She has got a lot better recently but not sure if its cause of naughty area or she's just improving behaviour slightly as she's getting better at other things too.

Is Caitlin into babies/dollies as something that works well with Immi is getting her to bring her baby over for nappy change and she'll lie down well with baby next to her.

opps bit of an essay sorry!x

That wasnt an essay! Have you saw the average length of my posts lol?!

She does love dollys atm and would bring them over to get changed. Im maybe going about it the wrong way but and lure her over to change them and then grab her and lie her down. Sometimes she fine with this and chats to her doll while im doing it, other times she has a hissy.

I think id like to give her a warning, then pin her down if needs be and then follow through with a consequence after. I cant think were to have a naughty area in our house but. We live in bungalow so no small hall area. Only safe place is her bedroom but I dont suppose it a great idea to have her room as a punishment. I guess I could make a corner in the living room into a naughty area but its a bit crap that I have to stay in the room with her. I wonder if that makes a difference?

Caitlins temper had been improving lately as we both were ignoring her tantrums. Its just difficult when the tantrum is them fighting you over something you need them doing asap.

Yeah it's deffinitely harder when you're asking them to do something rather than not as you need to discipline but still need them to do as asked.

I tried naughty chair in corner but was a complete nightmare, just Immi laughing as I tried to get her to stay on the bloody chair for more than 2secs. i've found having her shut out is much better as she's an attention seeker so me not being there to see her is ultimate punishment. Guess you could make a naughty area, then stand at the door just out of sight so you can make sure she's safe but still ignore her for those 2mins?

Our hall is safe enough I suppose, if I shut all other doors. I could try and just hold living room door shut over but still listen out that she isnt trying to get into kitchen etc.

Our granparents never had this problem, a sharp smack and problem sorted! My granda stares in disbelief sometimes at how Caitlin carrys on He's always asking why she screams so much as if she's strange.

ohhh I'd have been mad if Dan did those things! So no I wouldn't do that - the phone call was really quite a mean thing to tbh

This is what i did

If she won't lie down for a change then just don't do it - say 'I want to change your nappy - you come and lay down here' then completely and utterly ignore her - nothing she does is of interest unless she comes and lays down. If she does something else repeat above and I tend to tap the bed or whatever here I want her. When she got really bad at having her nappy done it would take ages for her to lay down, but it doesn't last long, and you just have to to patient and stick with it every time.

Izzy is in pullups now, so if I am putting one on for a nap I ask her t come and stand by me and hold me and I put one on...99% of of the time she comes and stands there...and I used the same as above.

I don't really agree with taking things away from her for a nappy change, for me you need to get her to realise it's in her best interests to lay down, she won't take long to twig she doesn't get attention til its cleaned, and she wants to get on with playing and interacting...so just take away that should be enough.

I did used to take her bed buddies out when she used to be naughty and keep getting out of bed, but thats the only time I've ever taken stuff away cos at the time that is the only thing she wants, if you know what i mean....if I turned the TV off she wouldnt care, she'd just do something else, if I took a toy away in the day she wouldnt care as would go and play with something else.

I just say to Harry "you will get a sore bum if you don't get your nappy changed now" and he comes over to get it done, technically wasn't a threat though as he does get really really sore and knows thats what happens when he has a dirty nappy xx

Tyler was like this too but now he's really good but that's because we ask him to come and have his nappy changed and he does... but then we praise him loads when eh does it so he knows he's been good and if he doesn't I wouldnt' change it. he's at that age now where he should realise it's uncomfortable for his nappy not to be changed and so Im sure he would pretty quickly realise that I was trying to help.



He pats his nappy when he wants it changing too and I ask if he wants it changed he nods his head.



Stuart was wrong... especially because he just kept dishing out these threats and didn't follow through. for some kids the threat of something works but only if you follow through. my OH says it sometimes erm... like if you don't do that you won't have any more dinner... or similar and I have to tell him off for it because Tylers not stupid he knows that's not going to happen so whats the point in even saying it.



If Tyler doesn't do something I want that is naughty he gets a warning that he will get put in his cot, if it's something I need him to do I just wait until he is ready to listen to me.



I try and speak to him and treat him like an adult so normally try and give him the choice or make him understand what I'm asking as 9 times out of 10 that's normally the problem, he's too wrapped up in whatever he's doing to listen.

must be a man thing, russ's threatens no xmas and he knows its not going to happen.

but for caitlin what about if you ask her and she doesnt do it, you ask her again and if still no joy, whatever she is doing, watching tv or playing with a toy is stopped or taken and she is told she can have it back when she comes to have her bum changed and keep to it, she might just go and choose something else but i would take that too, until she comes.

but yeah i remember crawling around the floor chasing rich to have his bum done, it was easier to just let him continue, but i would move and the tv would be off until he came, worked for him, but took a little time to get to it.

btw Ive just realised how patronising my post sounded :/

sorry lol I just meant to say what we do with Tyler!

Sam gets asked, then a count to three with a warning then if still being defiant i just grab him and change it ignoring any bad behaviour. TBH he very very rarely does this anymore as he just knows it wont wash with me